TOPIC:

I just want to say that as a league director that every decision we make is "screwing" someone over. For the people that have never done it you dont know what your missing(Sarcasim) F1 and I was talking last night about getting a commitee together to view replays. As of right now I believe the teams that are in agreement with this are BLS, DOIT, and WFO. There is going to be a few things to hash out but I really believe that this will be undertood as a much more fair way to view the replays. It will take the league director out of the equation for the most part.

If you have any ideas on this please post below.

ok , heres a big one , i sat here and thought for a while about this and i came up with some stuff that may or may not make sense , as i say thru out it "Im just thinking/talking out loud"

i like the idea of having a commitee to do this type of thing

but...

with people having real lives , we cant all be at all the races all the time , would this be a commitee that would review replays possibly days after a race? and make the results pending verification until the next said event for that series?

im not trying to shoot this down , just asking questions

i think if it does postpone the final results , that could be like "tech" after a race , complete results pending

another thing is who would be on this commitee? 1 representative from each team involved? or 2 , in the event that one of the replay commitee members is involved in the replay in question

and thinking of myself here , i try to remain cool and collected , but sometimes my emotions get the better of me - whats to say someone reviewing these replays doesnt side with someone they want to win a championship more than another driver?

we have seen people and teams be dicided by such things , like what precipitated the talks to create such an entity

i like what we have all collectively done with the relatively limited resources we have to manipulate this game , could this be taking it too far? when does big brother take a step back and let the racers race?

again im just thinking out loud here

it could benefit in the sense that we would all be running under the same umbrella of uniform rules , and guidance - similar to a large national sanction in real life - like UMP , they have multiple series they over see , and fasttrack crate series is the same way , they are national , and split into regional divisions that run under the same rules everywhere

and , i think we would need all teams online with us currently to be part of it , you cant have a commitee without every team being involved , to guard against anyone saying they didnt recieve thier fair shot
also because we do have racers from multiple teams that can show up to any race , anytime

another thought i just had while out smoking :
is this a "new" rule that is being imlpimented? -or- is this the growth of an existing rule?
such that the giving of spots in a race has kind of changed into no spot giving/review of replays to determine who was in the wrong - why not just say no reviews , racing is racing it happens in real life and get over it , move on to the next race

maybe we should create a governing body that all teams have the opportunity to run under like the above mentioned UMP , we come up with our own promoters association and , teams that agree to run by and under certain rules all agreed upon , to the extent , if all agree to run multiple rules(like qualifying lining up heats , and reverse points lineups) because we dont want to take away from what already works and makes different series unigue in thier own right

would that create a better feild to play on?

im just wondering if that kind of thing would ever work? we all know that there are certain things you dont do(driving backwards , intentionally taking out another racer) we all know things we do - does the creation of an overseeing commitee or association serve to forward the game as we know it or does it hinder any further progess?

we have made this about as real as we can , is this the next step?
if there is a commitee created , will it be just whom ever volunteers -or- will there be some sort of election or nomination process?
does this election/nomination process happen annually?
what happens when someone who is on any board or commitee up and leaves the game?

i dont know if i like the idea that 3-4-5 people who appoint them selves "in charge" are going to have everyones best interests in mind

maybe im taking this way too far , maybe im not ..... again im just thinking

might be some stupid stuff in there , but those are my thoughts , i may be way off base , but ..... oh well

Ok Im going to try to answer these to the best of my ability as of right now...remember nothing is finalized we are just thinking outloud here and trying to come up with the most fair way of doing things. The members of the commitee will answer these to the best of our ability...but im gonna go ahead and try to answer these for you

Question 1:I think if it does postpone the final results , that could be like "tech" after a race , complete results pending

Answer: I would think that most races will have at least a couple of members of the commitee at the race. And if not I would say with 24 hours of the race you could get several members to look at it.

Question 2:In the event that one of the replay commitee members is involved in the replay in question

Answer: I am going to suggest that the member in question and his team are not to make any decision and that the members of the commitee that are on the other teams will make the decision.

Question 3:i like what we have all collectively done with the relatively limited resources we have to manipulate this game , could this be taking it too far? when does big brother take a step back and let the racers race?

Answer: I know as a league director I try to be as fair as I can but even then I get questioned about different stuff and I really believe that it will take all the bias out of the decisions. I have personally used other people to look at replays when Im involved because I know how Im going to see it...and if what they say is different from what I say I always use their opinion over mine because they are seeing it from a different point of view than I did because i was in the heat of battle.

Question 4: it could benefit in the sense that we would all be running under the same umbrella of uniform rules , and guidance - similar to a large national sanction in real life - like UMP , they have multiple series they over see , and fasttrack crate series is the same way , they are national , and split into regional divisions that run under the same rules everywhere

Answer: Although this isnt a question i want to address it. I think that the commitee will view the replays and use the rules that each team will have posted on their site to make decisions. (I dont believe we will have uniform rules, but it would be really nice).

Question 5: think we would need all teams online with us currently to be part of it , you cant have a commitee without every team being involved , to guard against anyone saying they didnt recieve thier fair shot
also because we do have racers from multiple teams that can show up to any race , anytime

Answer: I believe that each team that agrees to the commitee rules should have at least 1 member in the commitee

Question 6: is this a "new" rule that is being imlpimented? -or- is this the growth of an existing rule?

Answer: This is just an idea at the moment. And your questions about it is exactly why i put this thread on here.

Question 7: such that the giving of spots in a race has kind of changed into no spot giving/review of replays to determine who was in the wrong - why not just say no reviews , racing is racing it happens in real life and get over it , move on to the next race

Answer: Once again each team will probably keep their own rules which is how the commitee will interprit them. I know at WFO the rule now is if you knock some1 out of the way the person that caused the wreck will go to the tail and every1 moves up a spot(like at the real races), Also we have the ability here to view a replay at different angles and come to a decision from those angles.

Question 8: would that create a better feild to play on?

Answer: I believe that this will make a more uniform way that everyone looks at replays, so yes I think it will be a better field to play on.

Question 9:im just wondering if that kind of thing would ever work? we all know that there are certain things you dont do(driving backwards , intentionally taking out another racer) we all know things we do - does the creation of an overseeing commitee or association serve to forward the game as we know it or does it hinder any further progess?

Answer: This has never been done that I know of so I have no idea if it will work or not. But I am willing to give it a shot. This may be the best idea that we've ever had or may be the worst so who knows!!!

Question 10: will it be just whom ever volunteers -or- will there be some sort of election or nomination process?

Answer: I think each team will put in 1-2 people to be part of the commitee

Question 11:does this election/nomination process happen annually?

Answer: I have no idea

Question 12:what happens when someone who is on any board or commitee up and leaves the game?

Answer: I would think that team would be able to put another person in their place

Question 13:i dont know if i like the idea that 3-4-5 people who appoint them selves "in charge" are going to have everyones best interests in mind

Answer: I dont know if i would consider them "in charge" just having people look and make a more uniform decision.

Question 14:maybe im taking this way too far , maybe im not ..... again im just thinking

Answer: Absolutly not!!! this is exactly what I wanted...Lets get everyones opinion and what needs to be done with this and if its even worth trying to get off the ground!


OK now that this is all done please understand that "I" answered these questions as "I" see fit...this commitee is not "me" so these answers may not even be close.

i say like nascar we need a "president" to make the final decision on this or any other matter and after reading the books u2 just wrote i think we have 2 nominees . good stuff..glad there's ppl almost as smart as me 2 make these decisions. all jokes aside i was up all night with tummy troubles...out sick 2day.

I dont think you could pay me to be president of DTR2...I have evough headaches running WFO!!!

well , having one person "president? is what i think we are trying to stay away from , it may make sense for nascar , they are a single sanction , where as dtr2 has many sanctions (doit , vlr , wfo , bls , usra , txr , wvrs , xor , xcr , sorry if i missed yours) , and people dont seem to really like the idea of having 1 person in charge of everything , im liking the commitee idea right now

im still very interested to see what everyone else has to say about this

ive got more thats running through my head right now , but i want to see other peoples opinions and thought before i go rambling again

And please understand guys...this commitee wouldnt be in charge of running shows or asking for replays...we would get them sent to us and view them and make a decision on what we see...nothing more

Ok felles heres the deal, I am the one who started the whole idea of the Abitration Committee and I discussed it with F1yer and Shock on Nov.14th and they both agreed we could use this committee to better the decisions handed down by promoters, what spured this up is the decision I made to swap spots with Rain after a doit race. The decision was not favorable to Rain, but to me it was the right thing to do. Now at that point he could have ask for arbitration on the matter, then a commitee would look at it and make the final decision for both parties and thats the end of it, I spoke to F1yer last night and showed him what I have so far, he like it but thought it needed more, and your all welcome to see what I have so far, and as team owners I encorage you to help me right this, copywrite it and put it in place. I hold a Copyright© License in the State of Kansas and Ill be happy to make it legal. I think this may be something that may very well keep the game going for a while longer. here is the link to what I have so far, www.doitracing.com/RIGHTCALL.html
Thanks Karl

I knew you had talked to F1yer but I was going to try to keep yours and rain's incident out of this...

ok , open forum , open discussion :

my thoughts :

i read the "Right Call" , and believe i understand it
i accept what is trying to be done
but i just have this feeling that it seems to legaleeze for me , i dont like the fact it feels like big brother government putting his finger in our game , and that it will/could open the door for more stringent rules in the future

and another thing that bothers me is , its originating from a team that just came back from being gone all summer(no league races) , and its the very same team that was also involved in the attempt to quell some sort of cheating scandel , whether it was cheating or not isnt what im trying to talk about

its that the team starting this new replay commitee is , in my mind , taking things too seriously , and trying to throw thier weight around and influence others to follow thier lead

in my mind this is all very suspect , and to include that it could be made legallly binding - to me thats ridiculous - its a video game

i know we want fair play , but does it need to go that far?
how did we as online racers ever get this far without it?
how did we as online racers ever get to this point?

DB this idea actually came about from a decision that Karl made agains Rain the other night. Karl thought "wouldnt it be great that when Rain didnt agree that he would have someone he could go to because he didnt think it was the right call." Now after talking with Karl for awhile about this he explained to me that the call would be made within the league 1st. If one of the racers didnt agree with the ruling he could then ask for Right Call Arbitration. Then the members of the arbitration commitee would look at it and render a decision.

Understand that although it was DOIT's idea, the owner/team leaders at BLS,WFO,and VLR have talked about the IDEA and like the IDEA of it. It is still a work in progress and likely wont be in effect until 2011.

Do we need the copyright...no but karl has copyright stuff and I kinda thought it was more funny than anything...It would be in no way legally binding since, yes it is a game.

Im sure Karl will be on here to further explain some of the things on here better than I can.

And after talking to Karl every team that is a member will have a person in the arbitration commitee.

no deadbold it nothing like that, its just a second set of eyes on anything that can't be settled during a league race the only thing thats leagal about it is what ever decision is made by the arbtration committee is unamous and final without recourse or appeal or another arbitration by a second enity.
its just that simple. I appreciate your input.

I think it's cool...for the question of will the results be on the site or will they have to wait if any replays need reviewed or whatever...well you can simply consider any results unofficial until an incident is looked at. Which means if Rain was wrecked outta first and finished 10th and the guy who wrecked him won, the guy who wrecked him would be awarded first until the official results are posted.

It's kinda like NASCAR does when they review and assess penalties 2 days following the race and stuff.

In a conversation with ICE he thought a separate web site for the Committee would be nice with all the team owners having a password, but with VLR's site, a part of the forum could also be dedicated for it. I would like to mention this committee is only for team owners and one agent the team owner assigns as a stand in, while the owner is absent.

One more thing about the copyright it is not a legal document it is something in writing we want to protect from useage by other gammers with out our permission and it can't be changed or edited without are permission and it give us specific rights to you the name RIGHT CALL© in our publications and no one else can use that exact name legally for their use. It is a written document created by the DTR2 teams for the betterment of our game decisions, therefor it belongs to all of the teams that created it and the shall have free use rights, and that is all the copyright is for.

to choose the team representatives for each team we should have each team choose 3-5 members from their team to go on a ballot.then the other teams vote for 2 people from that ballot to represent that team.ie:bls chooses 5 drivers from our team,then everyone on the other teams involved will vote for 2 reps from bls.bls would have no vote for our reps except for who goes on our ballot.this should give everyone the fairest outcome from the "Right Call" commitee.just an idea guys let me know what yall think.

Hey guys. As a co-owner of ERL, I think this is a great idea. If I understand this correctly...

If an event's race director has to make a decision on an incident, and any of the involved do not agree, then the director and all involved would send replays to the committee for review.

This committee would be comprised of 1 or 2 people from each team.

Any issue involving a committee member (as a racer or director) would result in that member not being involved in the review of that incident.

The committee would go over the replays, make a decision, and that decision would be final.

There's no law, no one is appointed as a leader or president. It's everyone working together to help the racers and officials know the RIGHT CALL is being made.

Right Call would not be a governing body, but a tool to be used as a last resort that any incident is not resolved in the event.

So, as long as this is ran by all members equally. There should never be a majority input from one team. There would not be anyone appointed to “take over the world” so to speak.

I do have a suggestion though.
If the committee follows the rules provided by the team where the event takes place, I think each team should submit their rules and race format to the committee on or before Jan 1st for the following year. If there is a change to the rules/format, then a copy needs to be sent to the committee a week before the rule/format takes affect. This is not for the committee to approve or disapprove. It is simply to insure a fair arbitration for all involved if an issue does require the committee’s help.

The benefit being a member of the committee: a couple off the top of my head…
Assistance with those hard calls, drivers are more willing to run your event if they know they get a fair shake if an issue does arise.

That’s my 2 cents. So with Dead bolts that makes 4cents. C’mon folks anti-up!

Seriously I think this is a good idea.

Just another thought , maybe we can somehow get the rules more in line with each other. Maybe have the committee come up with a general set of rules and penalty's regarding race reviews. That way everyone knows the consequences no matter who is hosting the races. Just a thought , hope it works out.

As the owner of ERL, I like the idea and I say we do it. We all get on here to race and have fun. Stuff is going to happen from time to time, a race director then has to make a decision. When they make the decision it is always going to make someone mad. By doing it this way, I think it will take a lot of the complaining out of it.