TOPIC:

How are you ball lickers (haha, jk) gonna do lineups?

BLS_F1yer wrote: Sorry guys i was busy helpin a friend with some pc issues last night and didnt get home till late.Thanks for all the feedback and ideas.We will more than likely do the registration deal and lock it down a few days before the series starts.Im sure alot of the guys on the ranking list will not run for some reason or another but we are trying to make this th4e best we can with new formats and such.

LP i dont think there will be a need for 20 car tiers after we find out who is running and who isnt.
Jim thanks for the info on those drivers that may not attend.
Shock GFY!

wtf

JFR_Jim wrote: How are you ball lickers (haha, jk) gonna do lineups?

Probably like normal, rigged using the rigdomizer

for starters qualifying sucks
and with the potential for the max number of 15 cars in the top 2 tiers
im pretty sure random lineups wouldnt be too much of a problem for guys to advance in thier heats and bmain

VLR_Shock wrote:

JFR_Jim wrote: How are you ball lickers (haha, jk) gonna do lineups?

Probably like normal, rigged using the rigdomizer

Ill bring you on teamviewer Shock(and anyone else)so you can watch the randomizer.Then there will be 1 less thing for you to cry about.

BLS_DeadBolt wrote: for starters qualifying sucks
and with the potential for the max number of 15 cars in the top 2 tiers
im pretty sure random lineups wouldnt be too much of a problem for guys to advance in thier heats and bmain

Qualifying sucks, why? Because it is the most fair format in dtr2 and generally allows the 10 fastest cars into the A Main for the best racing, instead of some slow guys who start pole in their heat cause of a "randomizer" which is equal to winning a lottery with a ticket you didn't buy. Tell me how qualifying sucks and why RANDOMLY selecting who starts where is better? If you were faster I'm sure you'd like qualifying but since you have a better chance of starting higher with the randomizer you prefer it, which is personal choice.

But qualifying DEFINITELY does not suck and is the fairest way to determine a lineup instead of someone's possibly rigged randomizer. I started 9th at least 4 times in a BLS heat this year, how come I don't have any luck with the randomizer? At least with qualifying I start where I deserve even if I choke in qualifying...at least I have some say so in where I start. When you run stacked 9 and 10 car heats (Last night I started 9th in the heat and 5 people from our Heat ended up in the feature) and only 10 lap heats it makes it next to impossible to go from 9th to 1st or 2nd for a transfer without absolutely running someone over. Qualifying is 10000x better than a messed up randomizer and you can't say someone rigged the lineups with qualifying because you start where you start, and if you wanna bitch at someone you have to bitch at yourself for screwing up in qualifying.

If you're gonna use a randomizer for heat lineups it should at least be similar to how WFO does and allow passing points, that way if someone goes from ninth to third in a heat and normally wouldn't transfer, they would this time for passing a ridiculous amount of cars. Instead right now they have to go through a B or C main while maybe the guy they are chasing in points starts pole of his heat and ends up in the A Main starting first. Sorry for ranting but if you're gonna say qualifying sucks at least give a reason like I just did for why the randomizer is 100% bs and unfair to all the drivers. The randomizer must discriminate against people with the letter V at the front of their name cause it's only started me above 4th once EVER at BLS for a heat race.

BLS_DeadBolt wrote: for starters qualifying sucks
and with the potential for the max number of 15 cars in the top 2 tiers
im pretty sure random lineups wouldnt be too much of a problem for guys to advance in thier heats and bmain

The randomizer isn't as bad for 15 guys (it still sucks) but we're talking 30 guys a race and you guys only do 3 heats which means some people are starting 10th in their heat in a 10/12 lap race with other fast guys have no shot of making the A Main barring a miracle.

BLS_F1yer wrote:

VLR_Shock wrote:

JFR_Jim wrote: How are you ball lickers (haha, jk) gonna do lineups?

Probably like normal, rigged using the rigdomizer

Ill bring you on teamviewer Shock(and anyone else)so you can watch the randomizer.Then there will be 1 less thing for you to cry about.

The randomizer is unfair period. It doesn't matter if you show me it on teamviewer or not. Some super fast guys will still start top 2 while some other super fast guys will still start 9th and 10th...maybe if I changed my name or something it would randomly place me higher than 9th most weeks because there must be a catch in the randomizer that filters some people in the back half of the field every week

hahahaha
ok , ill try to answer some of that
personally i hate qualifying , whether its on dtr2 or in real life
yes i get mad with qual cuz im not the fastes , yes i get mad with qual cuz i screw up in a 3 lap session
i dont think qualifying is fair for the exact same reason you say its better - its puts the fast cars out front , that automatically cuts the field to how ever many heats you have times 2 = 6/8 cars - what sense does it make for the rest of the feild to even bother racing after after qualifying?
if you(plural you) qual outside of the top15 , you basically have zero chance of makin an AMain , or a BMain - how is that fair to everyone that is not a tier1 driver?
at least with random , yes its a lottery pick , sometimes you win , sometimes you loose - but i think its more fair than qual , everyone has an equal shot at drawing the lucky spot and drawing the suckas$ spot
as far as heat laps - if a drievr is as fast and clean as they say , they shoould eb able to advance into the AMain , whether its thru a heat or a BMain , whats it matter where yu start in the AMain , youre there - and AMains provide enough laps for you to go from the 5th row to 1st
as far as you getting crap start spots , tradtionally yu show up to races late , after the draw has taken place , and yu get started tail for being late

VLR_Shock wrote:

BLS_F1yer wrote:

VLR_Shock wrote:

JFR_Jim wrote: How are you ball lickers (haha, jk) gonna do lineups?

Probably like normal, rigged using the rigdomizer

Ill bring you on teamviewer Shock(and anyone else)so you can watch the randomizer.Then there will be 1 less thing for you to cry about.

The randomizer is unfair period. It doesn't matter if you show me it on teamviewer or not. Some super fast guys will still start top 2 while some other super fast guys will still start 9th and 10th...maybe if I changed my name or something it would randomly place me higher than 9th most weeks because there must be a catch in the randomizer that filters some people in the back half of the field every week

Every week at 90% of dirt tracks around the country use a fkn pill draw to do heat lineups.And yes some fast guys start rear and some front.It is what it is and we will do it that way.You do your qualifying deal and we will do ours.If you dont like it then dont fkn run.I think ill live if you dont run shock so now you can sleep at night knowing that.

VLR_Shock wrote:

BLS_F1yer wrote:

VLR_Shock wrote:

JFR_Jim wrote: How are you ball lickers (haha, jk) gonna do lineups?

Probably like normal, rigged using the rigdomizer

Ill bring you on teamviewer Shock(and anyone else)so you can watch the randomizer.Then there will be 1 less thing for you to cry about.

The randomizer is unfair period. It doesn't matter if you show me it on teamviewer or not. Some super fast guys will still start top 2 while some other super fast guys will still start 9th and 10th...maybe if I changed my name or something it would randomly place me higher than 9th most weeks because there must be a catch in the randomizer that filters some people in the back half of the field every week

Shock I sent you the screen shot of the randomizer and you started 9th, I started 7th. Wheel started 7th in his heat as well. I like the way that VLR does the qualifying with the top 4 invert but if you dont want to spend an extra 30-40 mins qualifying then I like the randomizer...I can promise there was no conspiracy to make you start in the back. I think Ive started top 5 once in the series in a heat. And the last couple weeks I decided that 10 laps wasnt enough and changed them to 12 in the heats and 15 in the B just so it would give the guys starting in the back a little extra shot to get up there.

BLS_DeadBolt wrote: if you(plural you) qual outside of the top15 , you basically have zero chance of makin an AMain , or a BMain - how is that fair to everyone that is not a tier1 driver? /quote]


To answer this, F1yer qualified 33rd a couple weeks ago and finished 2nd.

Our format gives plenty of time for people to advance to the feature with 10 lap D Mains (usually 5 cars or less in these with top 2 transferring)

12 lap C mains (usually winner only transfers from 2 C Mains)

and then

20 lap B Mains (This gives extra time for someone who may have got wrecked in the heat to get up to the front or if they won the C Main. If you're fast enough to get in the show, you probably will.) I just pm'd you and said we just have a different philosophy about it I guess and that's obvious. But I think our format gives everyone plenty of time to get to the front if they are fast enough, not to mention almost all the A Mains are 50+ laps so no matter where you start you should have enough time to get up through the field.

At BLS, though, until the last 2 weeks the Heat races were just 10 laps with usually 9 cars to a heat, and then the B mains were only 12 laps...not much time to do anything at all. Finally ICE or someone changed it so it's a little easier but if lineups are random you need all the time you can get to make it to the front and 10 laps is almost impossible to go from 9th to 1st on a 1/4 mile track. And also we try to not put 9 cars in a heat, we will run extra heats if needed to give more leeway and less cars to have to pass. It's as fair as I can make it.

Basically it boils down to opinion. Your format is geared to give some guys who aren't quite as fast generally a chance to make an A Main, while ours is geared to get approximately the fastest 10 in any given night the best shot of making an A Main which makes for a good race generally. Last weeks A Main was loaded down and to get a top 5 is a big deal when there are 10 'tier 1' drivers in an A main, at least to me it is. Like I said it's all just opinion and I understand where you're coming from and hopefully you understand my point of view too

icefighter wrote:

VLR_Shock wrote:

BLS_F1yer wrote:

VLR_Shock wrote:

JFR_Jim wrote: How are you ball lickers (haha, jk) gonna do lineups?

Probably like normal, rigged using the rigdomizer

Ill bring you on teamviewer Shock(and anyone else)so you can watch the randomizer.Then there will be 1 less thing for you to cry about.

The randomizer is unfair period. It doesn't matter if you show me it on teamviewer or not. Some super fast guys will still start top 2 while some other super fast guys will still start 9th and 10th...maybe if I changed my name or something it would randomly place me higher than 9th most weeks because there must be a catch in the randomizer that filters some people in the back half of the field every week

Shock I sent you the screen shot of the randomizer and you started 9th, I started 7th. Wheel started 7th in his heat as well. I like the way that VLR does the qualifying with the top 4 invert but if you dont want to spend an extra 30-40 mins qualifying then I like the randomizer...I can promise there was no conspiracy to make you start in the back. I think Ive started top 5 once in the series in a heat. And the last couple weeks I decided that 10 laps wasnt enough and changed them to 12 in the heats and 15 in the B just so it would give the guys starting in the back a little extra shot to get up there.

Qualifying only takes 20 minutes now because we started doing 6-7 qualifying groups. And that's why we start at 8:30 instead of 9. Basically we set aside 30 minutes for qualifying and the lineups come out super quick thanks to Bucks VLR Lineup sheet he made us.

o , and passing points
in general - **not for the sprint series**
... um , i really like the idea , a lot
but , thats something ive looked at , and im trying to figure out how to do it in a timely manner , i understand how they work and have the file on hand , but how does 1 person balance runnin a timely show and correctly do passing points? i never ran a wfo show when they used the passing points
so im sure it can be done - im just not sure i want to take that step yet
unless its some sort of fun lil program like the lineup deal you work at vlr after qual

BLS_DeadBolt wrote: o , and passing points
in general - **not for the sprint series**
... um , i really like the idea , a lot
but , thats something ive looked at , and im trying to figure out how to do it in a timely manner , i understand how they work and have the file on hand , but how does 1 person balance runnin a timely show and correctly do passing points? i never ran a wfo show when they used the passing points
so im sure it can be done - im just not sure i want to take that step yet
unless its some sort of fun lil program like the lineup deal you work at vlr after qual

I think he does it by hand, but the shows seem to go pretty fast, around an hour most nights

The simple truth is that was the way the rules read when the series started. That is what BLS liked and thats what we went with. I am perfectly happy with either but the rules stated that from the git go. Now I did go ahead and add some laps to make it easier for the guys that got picked to start in the back. Plus alittle adversity never hurt anyone

USMTS passing points format:
www.usmts.com/Documents/USMTS-points-calculator.pdf

VLR Gen3 series passing points (old):
vlrgen3.webs.com/rules.htm

i moved this to its own topic out of the sprint topic so we can continue talkin in here about this stuff

i dont know how wfo does thier lineups beyond heats

so after heats - winner xfers? and 1 other driver from that heat with the highest passin points? or - are all the passing points from all heats combined and whom ever has the highest fills out the xfers from heats?

do the bmains get lined up by finish order frm heats , or by remaining passing points?

WFO is based on passing points. However I havent seen someone win and not make it to the feature but it is possible. And im pretty sure he sets the B's up using passing points as well. Its alittle to complicated for me